Who has this Crank Seal Protection Plate?

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
great product, ox and i joined forces to come up with this... towards end of the year i will be selling these and ox wont be, he is focusing on other stuff rn. i will be making these out of SS rather than aluminum
Interesting, will you address the mounting tabs failure that has been observed?

Also will it still be priced at $139? Because I think alot more people would jump on board if it was cheaper.
 

MoistNapkin

Corporal
May 25, 2019
104
Why would it? I believe his issue was that the pulley hit the crank plate and caused it to break. So as a result he removed it and changed the belt as a precaution or due to damage from the pulley contacting the plate.
Oops, I read over the top of that post. No doubt I agree with ya. I have one installed and have no issues thus far.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: F87Source

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
Oops, I read over the top of that post. No doubt I agree with ya. I have one installed and have no issues thus far.
That's good to know! That you aren't having issues. I want to get one for my m2, but the price is too high, especially for what might be a one time use plate if it is as weak as others have been saying it is.
 

fmorelli

Major General
Staff member
Aug 11, 2017
3,115
Virginia
Interesting, will you address the mounting tabs failure that has been observed?

Also will it still be priced at $139? Because I think alot more people would jump on board if it was cheaper.
$139 to protect a wiped motor? And then in stainless with issues fixed? I'd say it's a bargain.

Filippo
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: Benji335i

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
$139 to protect a wiped motor? And then in stainless with issues fixed? I'd say it's a bargain.

Filippo
Yeah it is a tad bit overpriced imo, if it was $75 alot more people would hop on board.

This plate technically isn't even needed if people did their maintenance on time. To me this plate is just added backup, mainly just to satisfy my desires to spend money and tinker with my car, and for $139 it isn't worth it. Especially when an anodized billet aluminum crank bolt capture is $99 (even cheaper on Black Friday) which actually has a preventative function that cannot be solved with good maintenance.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: matreyia

Orion1two

Lurker
Dec 14, 2019
13
Anyone ever come to any conclusion about the consequences of removing those bolts. Seems harmless but also not... lol Really want the peace of mind that my belt isn't gonna end up in my oil pump. Just spoke to a guy that's coming out with a V2 on ebay. his fitment looks perfect. and fair pricing at $85 As of 5/5/20 he has 1 V1 left. https://www.ebay.com/itm/N54-Crank-Seal-Plate/254585544657 I was concerned about the welds but said they are done by a professional and he's never had anyone report a failure.
 
Last edited:

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
Anyone ever come to any conclusion about the consequences of removing those bolts. Seems harmless but also not... lol Really want the peace of mind that my belt isn't gonna end up in my oil pump. Just spoke to a guy that's coming out with a V2 on ebay. his fitment looks perfect. and fair pricing at $85 As of 5/5/20 he has 1 V1 left. https://www.ebay.com/itm/N54-Crank-Seal-Plate/254585544657 I was concerned about the welds but said they are done by a professional and he's never had anyone report a failure.
I am also worried about removing those bolts. If the block lifts or even wiggles a bit then the seal is punched and destroyed, leading to a leaky motor. There are alot of extra bolts holding the block together so it should be unlikely.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: Orion1two

Orion1two

Lurker
Dec 14, 2019
13
That's what I was thinking. Just 2 of many bolts and a lot of people have done this mod. It's on my list but not priority just put on a new belt and pulleys. I really wish I could have done it then but I just found out about this plate like a week after that smh... lol
 

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
Does nothing. Please take a look at its design.
I have, and it does serve a function..... It prevents the bolt from vibrating out, which apparently quite common.

This is what I have observed:
There have been a few 700 whp m3's that have spun a crank hub on the stock motor with the original bed plate design (stock power), then spun the warrantied motor with the new bed plate at 700 whp, and a 3rd warrantied motor at 700 whp. But never spun again with 17,000 km+ at 700 whp with a CBC.


Next when looking at the design, since the CBC is an extremely rigid plate bolted to the harmonic dampener there is not way for the crank bolt to vibrate lose unless it spins the CBC which is near impossible. The crank bolt would also back out while it losens which means it would have to push the CBC out to do so, again impossible. The only negative to this design is that if the hub spins it would spin the bolt. There are two scenarios I can visualize:

1) it spins counter clockwise, but to do this it has to losen the bolt which means the crank bolt has to move outwards which means it has to push the CBC out, again impossible so it might actually prevent the hub from spinning in this direction.

2) it spins clockwise, only way that is possible since it means the bolt goes inwards, since it is tightening the crank bolt there will not be a catastrophic failure caused by the whole timing assembly coming loose. It will throw off timing like a normal slip though.






I believe you are the one that has not thought of the design thoroughly and don't understand what is going on when the hub slips. I have done alot of research on this subject reading every thread available, talking to VTT about my ideas, talking to m3 and m4 owners, and countless hours of though experiments and discussing those ideas with others. My conclusion is that it works, because it prevents one common aspect of crank hubs slipping - crank bolts vibrating or coming loose. Yes the hub can still slip if it spins without the bolt coming lose, but this fixed one aspect of the issue which is what it's designed for. If you want a full fix you would have to get something like the splock, but even crank hub fixes without a CBC can still fail if the bolt vibrates loose.

If you still believe otherwise please inform me where my conclusions/ideas are wrong, I am open to more discussion, thoughts and knowledge before I install my CBC.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: NoGuru

SlowE93

Lieutenant
Jul 2, 2017
583
I have, and it does serve a function..... It prevents the bolt from vibrating out, which apparently quite common.

This is what I have observed:
There have been a few 700 whp m3's that have spun a crank hub on the stock motor with the original bed plate design (stock power), then spun the warrantied motor with the new bed plate at 700 whp, and a 3rd warrantied motor at 700 whp. But never spun again with 17,000 km+ at 700 whp with a CBC.


Next when looking at the design, since the CBC is an extremely rigid plate bolted to the harmonic dampener there is not way for the crank bolt to vibrate lose unless it spins the CBC which is near impossible. The crank bolt would also back out while it losens which means it would have to push the CBC out to do so, again impossible. The only negative to this design is that if the hub spins it would spin the bolt. There are two scenarios I can visualize:

1) it spins counter clockwise, but to do this it has to losen the bolt which means the crank bolt has to move outwards which means it has to push the CBC out, again impossible so it might actually prevent the hub from spinning in this direction.

2) it spins clockwise, only way that is possible since it means the bolt goes inwards, since it is tightening the crank bolt there will not be a catastrophic failure caused by the whole timing assembly coming loose. It will throw off timing like a normal slip though.






I believe you are the one that has not thought of the design thoroughly and don't understand what is going on when the hub slips. I have done alot of research on this subject reading every thread available, talking to VTT about my ideas, talking to m3 and m4 owners, and countless hours of though experiments and discussing those ideas with others. My conclusion is that it works, because it prevents one common aspect of crank hubs slipping - crank bolts vibrating or coming loose. Yes the hub can still slip if it spins without the bolt coming lose, but this fixed one aspect of the issue which is what it's designed for. If you want a full fix you would have to get something like the splock, but even crank hub fixes without a CBC can still fail if the bolt vibrates loose.

If you still believe otherwise please inform me where my conclusions/ideas are wrong, I am open to more discussion, thoughts and knowledge before I install my CBC.
Plz explain how a motor with cbc AND spline lock slipped a hub then.
 

SlowE93

Lieutenant
Jul 2, 2017
583
But hey, im not here to argue, believe what you want.
If you put a hub, pulleys etc on a crank, tighten the bolt to 5 lb ft, install a CBC, by hand,you can spin off the complete hub, pulleys, CBC, etc all in one piece.
Same goes if the bolt were to be tightened to 300lb ft, only difference is you wouldnt be able to now do it by hand.
Same rule applies that it can and WILL spin off as one piece. Hell, you can install and tighten to 5 , 10, whatever lb ft, weld the damn bolt to the hub and pulley, you can still spin the whole unit off because there is no key only bullshit friction discs.
But as I said, I dont feel like arguing and you can believe what you want. Chris himself already danced around this question and admitted (kudos to him for that) the bolt can still back off......just not by itself obviously, but with the whole hub unit which still is considered a failure.
 

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
Plz explain how a motor with cbc AND spline lock slipped a hub then.
Easy, VTT even addressed this issue as well. So there is a gen 1 and gen 2 SPLOCK design. The Gen 1 had a spiraled spline design like a spline remover thread, this prevented the spline lock from biting into the crank fully in some cases and that's why some gen 1's slipped, there is also a discussion how a spiral spline will only bite tighter and work in one direction. I believe it was only one or two cases of it not working, which is extremely little. VTT addressed this issue by making the Gen 2 SPLOCK which has straight splines (now it works in both directions) and must be pressed into the crank, this means the splines already have bit into the crank upon installation and is guaranteed to have been locked in. They even confirmed it with images of the spline marks into the crank.
 

F87Source

Corporal
Oct 14, 2019
221
Canada
But hey, im not here to argue, believe what you want.
If you put a hub, pulleys etc on a crank, tighten the bolt to 5 lb ft, install a CBC, by hand,you can spin off the complete hub, pulleys, CBC, etc all in one piece.
Same goes if the bolt were to be tightened to 300lb ft, only difference is you wouldnt be able to now do it by hand.
Same rule applies that it can and WILL spin off as one piece. Hell, you can install and tighten to 5 , 10, whatever lb ft, weld the damn bolt to the hub and pulley, you can still spin the whole unit off because there is no key only bullshit friction discs.
But as I said, I dont feel like arguing and you can believe what you want. Chris himself already danced around this question and admitted (kudos to him for that) the bolt can still back off......just not by itself obviously, but with the whole hub unit which still is considered a failure.
The hub spinning is not addressed by the CBC as previously stated, again showing you don't understand this issue, if you want to stop it from spinning you need a full crank hub solution that is pinned, keyed, or a splined.

You can stop the CBC from vibrating lose by securing the bolts holding it on with loctite, whose job is to prevent bolts from vibrating lose.
 
Top